How do you feel about metal gear after all these years?

/MG/ Metal Gear Discussion
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The title speaks for itself I think. And I believe it is safe to assume that everyone here has spend many years thinking, playing and enjoying the metal gear series.

I have been a ‘‘fan’’ of the metal gear series since 2003 when I first played Sons of Liberty. Even after so many years I still theorize about certain things about the lore and the themes of the games. When I first played the games from 1-4 I was young, I couldn’t understand english properly so I never fully understood the plot. It was something always out of grasp since it is even without the language barrier very complex. Maybe some ten years ago I stopped bothering about the lore of the games and just enjoyed watching the occasional youtube video or discussion about it. The small details didn’t matter that much anymore. I don’t know if there are any non- native english speaking members here that feel the same way(?).

Just recently I started replaying the games and have noticed many things about the games that seem silly, or things that I just don’t like. My main gripe is about the main plot and lore, and some inconsistencies with it.

I always held these games in very high regard, that the storytelling of these games is something no other game could reach. Now when you are older you start to realize the things that are off, the plot for example sometimes seems comparable to a B-movie. Atleast for me it gets harder to suspend disbelief as I have gotten older. When I was younger I didn’t fully understand the plot, after that I just rolled with it and never bothered about all the details, now when I go through the plot again I notice the bad things. And it is not only because the canon and lore stretches over many decades and games, there are things off about the plot of individual games. Now when I fully understand the plot, it doesn’t feel like good storytelling.

Kojima is held in very high regard when it comes to the gaming industry. But I think he is not that good of a writer and consistent with his work. But he does have great ideas and the metal gear world is very unique, something that I have always enjoyed. Today I still enjoy the metal gear games, and it is probably the only game series I have and always will be truly interested in. I watch speedrun streams of MGS every day.

How do you feel about the metal gear -series after all these years? Do you go back and forth about certain themes or elements about the games? Do you feel that the series has managed to keep you interested in it after all these years? Was there a game in the series you once hated and learned to love, or did you lose interest?

I think when MGSforums died many of us were tired of metal gear and there was hardly any discussion about the series. But now with the new forum and all do you feel like you have a fresh start again with the games? Hope the text made sense since I can’t write english that well.

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I agree with you about the writing not seeming as incredible now as it once did when I was younger, and the graphics and game play are a little outdated of course. I still do love MGS though and have actually learned to appreciate especially the first Metal Gear Solid compared to how I used to feel about it. I found out that a lot of the awesome and memorable scenes like Snake arriving in the SDV in the first game, or the screw tank in MGS3 are based on actual military operations and secret technology, most of which I never knew about even after playing those games a lot. For that reason I like these games more than I used to because they must have done a lot of research on military history to make them and have them be even a little cohesive. The writing and everything can be a little cheesy though, but also the first game amazes me because of how compelling of a story and characters they were able to put in there and it didn’t even need good graphics to be a great game. I appreciate how much they were still able to do with the PS1 and PC hardware at the time.

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I still hold the series in high regard. I never did play mgs4 (darn exclusives) but I can say MGS1, 2, and 3 make a great trilogy that is enjoyable. The plot is overly complicated in some parts and it can be a B movie with cheesy anime characters trying to take itself seriously at the same time. Despite that, still my favorite series. Plenty of shows, movies, and games are cheesy and I still love them.

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Tbh I’d never been hugely into it, but I become more and more interested in the series and keen to replay the games as I get older. Really think these games are aging extraordinarily well and considering there’s so much open knowledge about the infighting, drama, development, etc. That it adds a really interesting side to it all.

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Great post @DREAMPATH.EXE

Now that’s actually something that I love. I am very into exploitation flicks and b-movies, the whole premise of Metal Gear is absurd - one guy is sent in to stop a robot capable of firing a nuclear payload? That could have easily been a John Carpenter film from the late 70’s, early 80’s.

I love it!

I think I am back in love with it. There was a long time, post MGS4 (and during) that I was just done with what Kojima was presenting. I felt like I had seen it all, done it all, that was it. I got very disenfranchised by the series and everything, which is around when I broke off from MGSF too.

But as the years go on, Metal Gear always comes back to me. Somehow, someway, it’s there. There’s allusions to it in other media, I’m constantly thinking about some of the more prophetic elements of the story (as a whole, just given the state of the world and coming nano/chip tech, general unrest, rogue governments, super weapons, etc).

Now I feel like Metal Gear gave me not only great perspective for the future and navigating these crazy times as the series really taught me to be very weary of government actors and to really question authority, it also really made me anti-war to be honest.

I digress, but looking back I am very fond of Metal Gear as a whole, even MGS4…

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It’s a good question, in all honesty. I think Metal Gear was always, for better or worse, a subversive franchise and playing the original games is like hopping in a time machine and going back and forward all at once.

I don’t think any introspection could take away the innovation of these games, and what they introduced to gaming as a whole - but when you remove the nostalgic value and remove it from the context of impact that these games left, the cracks start to show.

Metal Gear was one of the first franchises to tell a dense story, but the story itself is nonsense. It can be enjoyed in a silly B-movie way, but that’s where it starts and ends. It’s well presented, but extremely corny in its presentation.

That’s okay, that has value - but the way Metal Gear is positioned as actual narrative genius is very far removed from reality in the context of modern gaming.

I think the cracks begun to show in the HD era with MGS4 and V; where the general public was more accustomed to good storytelling and the staples that MGS popularized (cinematic storytelling etc) became mainstream. It’s a good franchise, it’s important to gaming, and these games are still damn fun too - but they simply don’t have the same luster that they did 10-15 years ago.

tl;dr good games but that’s about it

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The feeling is very mutual that metal gear somehow always comes back around. There is some special charm about these games. But I really remember that many were weary on MGSF about the whole series. People continue to make analysis and retrospective videos about MGS and not every video game gets treated like that. Actually a few days ago I was googling for anwsers to certain questions about the lore on MGSF, it was a pain to browse tapatalk though. MGSF had better answers to some questions that reddit did.

I never really felt interested in the sequels that came after MGS4. I tried playing Peace Walker but it felt like such a chore on the HD collection. I am waiting for a steam sale so I will buy Phantom Pain and Ground Zeroes. I guess MGS4 was such a letdown for me that I didn’t go on.

We really need to discuss about MGS4 in detail now that the dust has settled in a thread dedicated to it.

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My honest thoughts are that I don’t think the writing in any of these games are any good.

I think every single MGS game Kojima’s ever written and directed is full of great ideas and iconic characters. But the stories are either complete nonsense or emotionally vapid. I used to defend MGSV’s story a lot, but it dawned on me as time went on that, while yes, I do genuinely think it has the strongest writing in the series, that doesn’t make its writing good. In fact, it’s pretty awful a lot of the times because so many of its ideas are surface level, and certain narrative choices just completely shit the bed (killing Skullster so unceremoniously, shoehorning in Eli when he didn’t actually fit into the game, Kiefersnake barely participating in most of the game, etc.)

I do generally like this series’ overarching story more than most video games on the simple basis that it’s endearingly earnest. It’s all schlocky bullshit, but it manages to be charming and at least memorable. And I can’t say that about most games.

Another thing I’ll always give Kojimbo points for is the fact that, with every game he writes and directs, for better and worse, he has something to say. None of this games are just assembly line games meant to engage and little else. He wants to use the medium to get a message across or lend a real world critique, and now more than ever, I deeply appreciate that side of things. I don’t like MGS1 very much or its story at all, but how many games in 1998 were really highlighting how impossible it is to truly get rid of nukes, and the sheer environmental damage merely storing those things is doing to the world?

For all the shit I give MGS2’s writing for being more exposition (and overly long dialogue in need of some hedge clippers) than actual story, its commentary about misinformation is more true today than it’s ever been. Doesn’t mean I have to actually like the story because, again, I hate exposition dumps, and that’s the lions share of MGS2’s cutscenes in a nutshell. But the context of those cutscenes is something that sticks with me because it’s just so depressingly accurate.

All of that said, the reason I love this series is entirely because of its gameplay. I know a lotta folks say “play MGS for the story,” but I think that’s bullshit personally. This is an interactive medium, and in an era when you can watch all video game cutscenes on youtube, it’s the parts when the controller is in your hand that’ll give you any incentive to slip a disk back into a console.

I love MGSV the most because its moment-to-moment gameplay is the most entertaining for me with the most open-endedness and replay value. I enjoy the feel of the gameplay and most of its missions immensely, and can replay a lot of 'em again and again without getting bored because each approach can feel so drastically different.

In contrast, a game like MGS3 HD works so well because it’s only got about 3 and a half hours of raw gameplay, and most of it is very consistent. You have about 15 or so minutes of sneaking around before you jump into any given boss battle, and of its ten bosses, eight are absolutely phenomenal, holding up better than most bosses of today do, I feel.

MPW HD was a game I grew to end up liking a lot as time went on. Its boss fights suck and the enemy AI is beyond the pale, but the level design is strong, and the mission accessibility lets you jump into any section of gameplay whenever you wish and approach it however you feel like. Zero tracing is really satisfying in the game, made easier by such cover-heavy levels, and combat can be really fun with the right gear.

And while I have a bunch of issues with MGS2’s campaign and its level design, that’s offset by some strong bosses, and especially the alt missions, most of which have way better level design than anything in Big Shell, and way more creative scenarios, like sneaking around giants.

There’s enough in most of these games to keep me coming back, in some cases, for decades. And I think that’s the strength of the MGS series and why it’s my favorite gaming franchise ever. I don’t have to think that the writing or the plots in these games are any good because after that first playthrough, I’m skipping cutscenes anyway and just enjoying the rock solid core gameplay loops. Which is why I’ve come back to games like MGS3 HD for years and haven’t even thought about most of the games I’ve played and beaten over the last generation.

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Even after all these years every time I play an MGS game I feel the same way as I did when I first played it to be honest.
I know how the controls work, I know the plot, I know how to speedrun it but, in weird way, this does not take away any of the fun from it. I still feel sad when Sniper Wolf dies, I feel like a superhero when Snake jumps of the Verrazano bridge, etc.

Kojima’s writing can get weird from time to time but when you combine the overall plot, the whole MGS universe, still amazes me. Kojima tried to be the Christopher Nolan of video games before it was cool. His ideas and storytelling are great, over the top and messy sometimes but still great.

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I’ve always been quite honest in that I’ve always said that MGS isn’t actually one of my favourite gaming franchises. I enjoy it a lot, but I wouldn’t say it’s a series that I’m keen to replay over and over again. I played MGS on PS1 as a kid, then 2 & 3 passed me by, and I eventually picked up Guns of the Patriots, a hype I rode for about a month, in which time I signed up for MGSF and once that hype died off, I stuck around due to the community.

I picked up MGSV back in 2015, and by and large, I hated it. I would still be interested in the next MGS game, whatever that may be. A remake of the first MGS would be a day one purchase for me.

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Fan since '99. It’s my favourite series.

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Understatement of the century.

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I gotta say, there was a time I was completely over MGS, like I didn’t even want to hear about it. As the years went on though I couldn’t help but relate real world events, conspiracies, etc to things that was first introduced to me in metal gear. As time went on I sort of got over all the flaws I saw with most of the games and just learned to love it’s overarching messages and scenarios(1-4). One thing you can’t deny, better or worse mgs games had something to say, it was never about mindless killing or tedious stealth. Messages are sometimes heavy handed but damn, i still enjoyed it. To this day i am still an mgs2 apologist, and yes i’m going to replay 1-4 really soon! I’m back on board.

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I wish they didn’t mess up MGSV as bad as they did. It was my real chance to sit down and play a MGS game. I owned MGS 1 when I was a kid in the 90s and being so young I could not really play or Get mesmerized story. Through out the year I’ve played MGS3 and 4 but never owned just played at friends houses. So for the chance to actually play a new MGS game and it to be abandoned half way through really was a let down. I am going to go back and play them all through just cause they are great games I just wish they didn’t destroy MGSV.

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This should be a topic on its own tbh!

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This is actually one of the things that got our minds stirring in addition to the remake rumors.

@NightFox, @Orca and I had some late night conversations exactly about this (conspiracies relating to or seemingly straight out of Metal Gear) back in October or so and we were reminiscing about how great of a thread it would have been.

Sounds like it’s time to get the party started.

Joey you should still check it out. The story is whatever but it’s an extremely fun game to play.

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I recently bought the HD collection on the Xbox store since it was on sale and was messing around on MGS2 for the hundredth time. I don’t think I ever tire of the Tanker chapter, it still impresses me, to think it came out in 2001 is incredible. I also appreciate what it was trying to say as I get older.

MGS1, MGS2 and MGS3 are three of my favourites games and I will always enjoy replaying them. MGS4 was an amazing experience on my first playthrough, but became pretty mixed on it on subsequent playthroughs. MGSV has great gameplay, but the way the story and missions are structured makes it hard to replay. I haven’t really played it much since 2015.

Anyway, I’m still interested to see anything new from the IP. I’m hoping that Bluepoint are the ones doing the MGS1 remake, they’ve shown what a great studio they are over the years with their handling on games like the SOTC remake and Demon’s Souls remake.

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For me, this is basically the most integral and unique part of the mg universe that is often disregarded. I would love to be part of that convo.

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Agreed! It’s one of my favorite aspects to discuss. I’ll set up a thread!

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I replayed all the games in the saga as recently as 3-4 months ago.

MGS1 MGS2 and MGS3 are still good as fuck and at this point I don’t really need to explain why. They’re all masterpieces.

In my opinion MGS4’s problem is not that it’s too convoluted, but it relies too much on nostalgia/fanservice and on weird plot devices (i.e. nanomachines). Plenty of the returning characters were there just because it was supposed to be the last chapter of the series and I think Kojima felt like they all needed to play a role of sorts but if there were fewer characters I think the story would have been better. And the nanomachines were so overused it became a meme, though it would not be the last time Kojima would do this same trick again. With all of that said, I still think there were a lot of positive stuff. The gameplay felt good, it has some of my most memorable moments of the saga and the boss fight against Liquid at the end was so good that he did the same thing again on Death Stranding. MGO was pretty fun too.

PW story is very meh to be honest, though the game itself is kind of addicting. I don’t like this one much except for Heavens Divide which I love as a soundtrack.

MGSV (GZ+TPP) was amazing until Chapter 2 when things started to fall apart a little. Having to replay the same missions but with extra difficulty was a bit annoying. Remember the nanomachines from MGS4? Now they’re back but now they’re vocal cord parasites. And of course there’s that whole situation with Mission 51 and the fact that the game is technically unfinished. However, the gameplay was so fucking great that it makes up for the game’s shortcomings in my opinion. It was definitely a good idea to improve on the base-building from PW, and the freedom of stealth in the game is still its best selling point. I got over 500 hours on PS4 and 120 more on PC. And the Venom Snake twist, which had me a bit disappointed at first, I grew to appreciate it as time passed.

Rising is just silly fun and I love it.

Overall, I still love the games, even the ones that the community generally seems to have mixed feelings. I think the whole problem with Kojima’s storyttelling are his symbolisms and allegories. Sometimes I think he needlessly overcomplicates a subject or ties it to one of his metaphors when he could have just used simpler methods. I’m not saying that he shouldn’t use those things in his games, far from it, but it can definitely affect the impact of the story. Like in Death Stranding, where the Beach is pretty much our world’s equivalent of a purgatory but he chooses to call it a Beach anyway. I think his writting would improve a lot if he stopped doing this.

Oh, and I liked Death Stranding too, btw.

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